17:06:54 I'm just pressing record.
17:07:04 So welcome to this exciting session.
17:07:05 This is our international women's week offer.
17:07:09 Hashtag choose to challenge from schools inclusion Alliance.
17:07:12 I am very excited.
17:07:23 To show you two amazing people who have been absolutely choosing to
17:07:27 challenge and breaking down barriers for further women to follow them.
17:07:31 So without further ado, I'm going to introduce you to our two.
17:07:35 Wonderful yesterday, Phoebe and Carol. So Phoebe,
17:07:37 if you could just start by telling us a bit about you.
17:07:39 Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me.
17:07:41 I'm so excited to be speaking with two very inspirational women in
17:07:44 your own rights.
17:07:46 So my name is.
17:07:47 Amy Shecter.
17:07:48 I am one of the first three females to coach in the NFL with a team
17:07:51 called the Buffalo bills.
17:07:53 And I guess my journey in summary is a bit crazy because I never even
17:07:56 enjoyed the sport.
17:08:02 Until I got over to the UK eight years ago,
17:08:04 and that's when I fell in love with American football and,
17:08:06 and now it's kind of opened up my life to all these opportunities and.
17:08:10 I'm very fortunate to play and captain for our team GB women's
17:08:13 American football team. I also play.
17:08:16 For England kabaddi. I play.
17:08:22 Flag football for great Britain and get to coach our GV under
17:08:26 19.
17:08:27 So lots of amazing opportunities that just came from moving to the UK.
17:08:30 Brilliant. Thank you. And Carol.
17:08:32 Hi, thank you for having me on this. And it's lovely to represent for.
17:08:34 That week.
17:08:36 Manet's caliber.
17:08:37 I was the first black.
17:08:39 I'm female Marshall back in 1988.
17:08:42 So quite a long time ago.
17:08:48 And were very few women were actually believes in what sports at that
17:08:50 stage, whether it be a Bosch or.
17:08:52 Or as a.
17:08:53 The driver.
17:08:59 I've gone up through the ranks and I'm now a national clock,
17:09:01 of course, for all national racing in England.
17:09:04 And that covered most of the, of UK.
17:09:05 Circuits.
17:09:06 What does doing that, which I love.
17:09:08 And that's my passion is cars is I've also after all that went on
17:09:11 last year with them.
17:09:12 Black lives matter.
17:09:13 Lewis Hamilton speak. Come out.
17:09:15 I've bought by an initiative called mixed race in generation.
17:09:17 And I'll now.
17:09:18 What an Academy where another thing for the next talent.
17:09:20 They'd be boys or girls.
17:09:26 And w of interest you have in both sport,
17:09:27 whether it be as a driver or getting into automotive or getting into
17:09:30 journalism.
17:09:32 Any assets.
17:09:33 I'm going to be here to be the conduit for that.
17:09:35 And there was aiming to be the first black race things. Be.
17:09:37 Anyways, we tins.
17:09:38 Running any diverse.
17:09:45 People in most sports up through the ranks and that's more fun.
17:09:48 The next six or seven Lewis Hamilton's.
17:09:51 Brilliant.
17:09:52 So my first question is, I mean, just how do you like.
17:10:01 Both of you have absolutely broken barriers.
17:10:03 And we know so much about the limiting factors that young people grow
17:10:07 up with the sense of who I can be, who I can't be.
17:10:09 Just tell us a bit.
17:10:10 Carol.
17:10:11 I'm going to start with you about how did you even think that that was
17:10:14 possible?
17:10:15 Well, it isn't.
17:10:16 I I've always liked causing when I was younger childhood watching.
17:10:18 RAC rallies and watching.
17:10:20 And that laid dormant until I got much older.
17:10:22 And then my then partner just disappeared off the brand.
17:10:27 So I'll follow up with them.
17:10:28 And I remember one of my first placement as a guest in the system.
17:10:31 Post five at joints. What should the calls come around?
17:10:33 And I was.
17:10:34 Absolutely.
17:10:35 In love, but that's what I've been the last.
17:10:40 But what it also proves is I didn't have to be a racing driver.
17:10:42 So everybody's.
17:10:46 Automatic reactions to being a racing driver and all that.
17:10:50 Over the years,
17:10:51 I've actually enjoyed being an official and being part of organizing
17:10:54 the events and being part of that.
17:10:55 Background thing.
17:10:56 They can give it happen for the drivers so you can get as much insight
17:10:59 out.
17:11:00 So he's the oldest about driving?
17:11:02 So it's about what happens in.
17:11:11 I'm scenes talking about behind the scenes, Phoebe,
17:11:15 you were just telling us earlier,
17:11:16 you're actually in one of the men's teams rooms at the moment,
17:11:19 and then sorry, waits around behind doing things. Any of them.
17:11:21 But again, that sense of.
17:11:22 You know, I don't,
17:11:24 I don't want to just be confined to a women's sport. I want to,
17:11:26 I want to coach the men. And what would the men,
17:11:28 how did that happen for you?
17:11:31 Yeah. And it's,
17:11:32 it's definitely an interesting one and like our same for apologies for
17:11:34 any crazy sounds that are going on.
17:11:36 The guys are doing their one rep maxes today. So they're,
17:11:38 they're pretty a hyped up right now.
17:11:40 But when it came to actually getting involved in coaching,
17:11:53 For me, I started as a player.
17:11:54 So when I moved to the UK and got involved in the sport that way,
17:11:57 in some ways,
17:11:58 my story is quite different to Carol because I never liked American
17:12:01 football. And I hate saying that I know it's not good, but they're,
17:12:04 for me, I've always loved horses. That's always been my passion.
17:12:09 And truthfully, I, I used to not be able to get into this sport.
17:12:11 It seems like there's a lot of start stop,
17:12:13 lots of changing of players.
17:12:15 And I know there's a lot of barriers for people as fans, me,
17:12:17 UK watching the sport as well.
17:12:18 So I can completely understand where you guys are coming from.
17:12:21 So when I moved to UK and got involved in American football.
17:12:25 I think that first off, when you're out of your comfort zone,
17:12:28 you're so much more willing to take risks anyways.
17:12:30 And that's what coaching was for me.
17:12:32 It was a way for me to give back to the community because.
17:12:34 Getting involved in American football completely changed my trajectory
17:12:37 in terms of my career and what I wanted to do.
17:12:40 But when I started coaching,
17:12:41 I thought I'm going to coach with youth first because truthfully.
17:12:51 I wasn't as confident in my skills as a coach.
17:12:54 So I thought at least with a younger generation,
17:12:56 I could teach them what I knew.
17:12:57 And as I got more confident with in coaching,
17:12:59 it was actually a gentleman. I was doing a level two course with.
17:13:06 For football. And he said, Hey, why don't you come along?
17:13:09 I think you'd be great at our team.
17:13:10 And it was actually someone else kind of pulling me into that
17:13:12 organization.
17:13:13 It wasn't something I'd thought about as an opportunity for myself
17:13:16 because there weren't really any female coaches. So.
17:13:19 I started in the UK and then.
17:13:20 Really that that snowball kind of kept rolling and I just kept
17:13:23 building a momentum and one of the really key pieces.
17:13:35 That I had was we have something called the careers and football forum
17:13:39 for females specifically within the NFL.
17:13:42 And they basically have almost created this sisterhood where
17:13:45 every year they have a new class of females that are brought in that
17:13:49 potentially want to have roles within the NFL.
17:13:51 And that's completely changed the landscape.
17:13:53 And it's the reason that some of the women are in the NFL now
17:13:56 coaching, because through that,
17:13:58 I was able to apply through the bill wash diversity fellowship,
17:14:00 which is a minority internship, essentially.
17:14:03 Which you can apply to.
17:14:06 I was also able to network with people who are in the industry and ask
17:14:09 them very real questions.
17:14:10 And they were able to give me really great answers,
17:14:12 which I think really helps because for a lot of us that, you know,
17:14:15 we may not see people in these roles growing up.
17:14:21 Or may not have ever been in those roles.
17:14:23 I think it's important for us to get as best of an understanding of
17:14:25 what does it actually mean to do that and what are other rules that
17:14:28 could potentially be done within our sport too?
17:14:31 Because we just don't know about it.
17:14:32 It's just not something we've grown up with.
17:14:33 Tanya, and I guess that must be similar for you, Carol.
17:14:36 Yeah, absolutely.
17:14:37 You know, like I say,
17:14:38 Most sports live.
17:14:39 Very mostly.
17:14:41 By males.
17:14:41 Firstly, you know, give it at the top.
17:14:42 It's great.
17:14:43 What are the white males? So if you women and.
17:14:50 Over the last few years,
17:14:51 more and more women are coming to the fore and you've got more women
17:14:54 raising divers and helping more women officials,
17:14:56 but we still need to do a lot more on you.
17:14:58 To change that platform to change that. So that, so that.
17:15:00 The youngsters coming in, whether it be girls.
17:15:02 I could see people that look like them. They can relate to.
17:15:05 You're not going to get somebody excited.
17:15:06 What would it be in the NFL or most schools?
17:15:07 Or let me see if you can't, you can't.
17:15:09 It looks like.
17:15:10 Who you are. That's fine.
17:15:12 And we're sort of cosmetology.
17:15:13 Now you do, you need, you know,
17:15:15 you need all these different groups to be represented.
17:15:16 And I really do believe in that.
17:15:17 You know, and, and that's what we need them.
17:15:18 No.
17:15:19 We're the ones after this.
17:15:21 Slay that, that way, that path.
17:15:22 Then I'm hoping they'll.
17:15:26 You know,
17:15:27 I've got skews upon the next generation of people that come behind
17:15:29 this.
17:15:30 They have it much easier.
17:15:31 Or they don't feel that they're the only ones and that's.
17:15:33 What about the famous have the same thing?
17:15:34 You might be able to go on that team. You might be.
17:15:36 Plus coach. And you've got your started by male.
17:15:38 You know, I'm suffering.
17:15:39 I'm also the only.
17:15:42 A woman over.
17:15:43 Oh, the black woman.
17:15:45 And I stopped using my hobby also in my day.
17:15:47 Up as well. So all my life.
17:15:49 I've always been the first.
17:15:55 And I was willing to beat first,
17:15:57 all the sunlight or the token one all the time.
17:15:59 Oh, that comes lots of other people around me. I can relate.
17:16:06 You can talk to that. You can share experiences with, you know,
17:16:08 and that's got to change. Now. We live in a big world.
17:16:11 The world is wide.
17:16:12 Definitely. And just picking up from that.
17:16:13 You know, we talk a lot about the people that you'd rather first,
17:16:16 and I know.
17:16:17 You know, when we were lucky enough to get to the Paralympics,
17:16:20 the first women's volleyball team.
17:16:22 It is a big deal for those people who are behind us.
17:16:24 But I didn't think we give enough.
17:16:26 Recognition to the people who keep us there.
17:16:31 The people who once we're there help us really thrive in that
17:16:33 environment.
17:16:34 What's that like for you? What is the culture?
17:16:36 In in the NFL.
17:16:43 You know, to be honest,
17:16:44 I think that it's so specific to each team because you have totally
17:16:48 different ownership, totally different head coaches.
17:17:10 But I think exactly like you've said,
17:17:12 it's not just good enough to be the first, it needs to be sustainable.
17:17:16 And there needs to be this pathway for people to come in.
17:17:18 And I guess going back to our careers forum, that is,
17:17:21 that's become the pathway now for people,
17:17:23 but the culture within the actual NFL and,
17:17:26 and within the building is definitely down to the people in it.
17:17:29 And I've,
17:17:30 I know that I've been super fortunate to be around coaches and staff
17:17:33 that.
17:17:34 Don't care what your gender or your races. They're just,
17:17:37 they just want to know that you're going to help them as players or
17:17:39 that you're going to do.
17:17:40 Blakley exactly. And that's so important.
17:17:43 I think it definitely has helped.
17:17:44 A lot of my head coaches have had daughters.
17:17:46 You've had little girls and they want their girls to a,
17:17:49 have a role model that they can see in the building.
17:17:50 But also think that if they want to become coaches,
17:17:52 if they want to become officials, whatever that looks like.
17:17:54 That the future is bright for them and they can genuinely achieve
17:17:58 whatever it is that they want.
17:17:58 Yeah.
17:18:00 And for me also, is that.
17:18:01 In a slightly older generation without giving my age away.
17:18:03 You were growing up.
17:18:04 Before it was so typical of.
17:18:05 Boys did football and cricket.
17:18:07 And girls did hockey.
17:18:08 Netball and never the Twain with me.
17:18:11 But you've got those as.
17:18:12 Well, what I want to be a footballer. What's the quickest.
17:18:14 What's been NFL. Okay. I want to be this, you know, vice versa.
17:18:17 I want to play, you know,
17:18:19 And we shouldn't stop those battles. It's all there.
17:18:22 You know, variation going on now.
17:18:24 You know, not no long generation anymore.
17:18:28 It should, no, it should be.
17:18:29 And I believe that's why I say whatever you want to be.
17:18:31 You, you can be.
17:18:32 You need to strive for that strive for what you want to be.
17:18:34 I love that.
17:18:35 And I think that's, that's absolutely true.
17:18:37 I guess what I want to ask from you, Carol is, you know,
17:18:45 Motor sports of expensive sport. Right. You know,
17:18:48 what about that intersection between gender or ethnicity on
17:18:52 socioeconomic status?
17:18:53 You know,
17:18:54 how do we make sure all of those barriers on picked rather than just
17:18:57 one or two?
17:18:58 Why I've been brought back to grassroots because having been on the
17:19:01 inside.
17:19:02 She's the last.
17:19:03 I've seen.
17:19:04 Things go on.
17:19:05 Yes.
17:19:06 But sport is expensive and obviously the further you've got the rents.
17:19:09 Expensive.
17:19:10 Saying that what's the name or.
17:19:11 If you just come in and just do it as a whole.
17:19:12 You'll just have the, you know, to have a public place though.
17:19:16 It can be inexpensive,
17:19:17 but often people see the barriers because if you live in urban cities,
17:19:22 You may not be anywhere near. You'd like to see from the one go well,
17:19:25 that's good.
17:19:26 I want to be like that.
17:19:27 But I don't know how to get involved in it,
17:19:29 but there's lots of other things that you can do.
17:19:30 There's things like autism.
17:19:31 There's sprints. There's all sorts of other things you can do.
17:19:33 But if you have to have some signposts.
17:19:35 Those things to have a go.
17:19:37 [Unknown] then you'll never know.
17:19:40 If you school.
17:19:41 You know, you.
17:19:43 Oh, I want to be an astronauts.
17:19:45 And he goes, Oh no, no.
17:19:47 Go work in the shop or go.
17:19:49 Do this and dump it down.
17:19:52 What you want to be.
17:19:55 Then that's what, that's what stops.
17:19:57 Some of the pathways, you know,
17:20:01 And then, you know, also educating the parents. So.
17:20:03 Your child wants to be whatever they want to be.
17:20:06 And the school is dumping down there.
17:20:07 Unit.
17:20:09 Sort of reset yourself and help your child.
17:20:14 Navigate those fields to enable them to get to where they want to be.
17:20:17 You know, don't let your seven steps.
17:20:18 Be your destiny.
17:20:20 Because.
17:20:22 You've got a destiny, you know,
17:20:24 and then also one of the things I'm doing is.
17:20:26 I'm really lucky to have lots of.
17:20:28 Red bull.
17:20:29 We're working with the collaboration.
17:20:30 In some urban events.
17:20:32 And that's exactly what I'm going to be doing.
17:20:33 I'm going to take in motor sport.
17:20:36 Not to the track. We'll take it back to the kids on the streets.
17:20:45 We're going to do offense. I'm bringing most sport to them,
17:20:47 have events they can come to,
17:20:49 or we can just sort of tap into what they want to do.
17:20:51 So tap into using computers and doing e-sport those sorts of things
17:20:54 with.
17:20:55 Don't hope you do reasonable stuff.
17:20:57 You have to take boat shows, you know,
17:20:58 to these inner cities and then in turn,
17:21:00 I then have declined youth groups and things like that.
17:21:03 And then we'll do it.
17:21:04 I'm bringing kids down when we're allowed to bring people to racer.
17:21:07 Bringing down on the taste of day.
17:21:09 Showed them around.
17:21:11 It shows me what goes on behind the scenes.
17:21:15 You know, they can be come cause of the age. They could become a,
17:21:17 through a taste.
17:21:19 You know,
17:21:20 And have it go.
17:21:21 So you might convert some of them, you might know.
17:21:23 But that's another good way. Also, if any.
17:21:27 Youngsters are doing, having to do the cases.
17:21:30 Colleges or university.
17:21:32 We'll do some volunteering so that one's gone.
17:21:36 And watching an old people's home or whatever.
17:21:37 Sports are really good way of.
17:21:38 Coming to volunteer.
17:21:40 Cause that way, it.
17:21:42 All the things you have to do, though.
17:21:43 Oh,
17:21:45 No training.
17:21:46 Taking the orders, et cetera.
17:21:49 Then, if you want it.
17:21:50 So to me,
17:21:51 What's real.
17:21:54 Tesla's things we can help.
17:21:58 And it's not just about getting the next drivers on the track.
17:22:00 It's just integrating.
17:22:02 Talking to people.
17:22:06 And, and I'm very, I'm very, very passionate about that.
17:22:07 And then also, especially.
17:22:09 Lots of good goals, but the other thing is young boys that fall.
17:22:13 Well off the track.
17:22:14 That gets excluded from the school.
17:22:15 But, you know, they're right.
17:22:19 Cause if that's the round they get, they don't carry on.
17:22:23 So I'm also looking at trying to maybe get an apprenticeship scheme
17:22:25 going so we could get to me.
17:22:26 On a interview level.
17:22:27 Rather than exams. Cause you know,
17:22:29 That sounds interesting.
17:22:32 Doing let's say mechanics or automotive or something like that.
17:22:36 We get them through.
17:22:37 We hold the, we support them through the partnership scheme.
17:22:39 They would provide the workspace.
17:22:41 What the call.
17:22:46 At the track, we can get the drugs interested and do the driving.
17:22:49 We've got two or three people.
17:22:51 Working. And then from.
17:22:56 We've got the goat go for, we then try and get him into.
17:22:58 It took doing another.
17:23:00 It's a university.
17:23:02 We'll do the next one and then do the next one.
17:23:04 And that's all I think, you know, that's why.
17:23:06 Is the answer.
17:23:06 So how those.
17:23:08 Accessibility affordability.
17:23:09 You know, it's not just about money.
17:23:13 But I'm starting up.
17:23:16 I want to try it.
17:23:25 I think we talked a little about success and obviously, you know,
17:23:27 an international women's week.
17:23:28 It's really important that we raise up the visibility of those women.
17:23:31 And the amazing men who've made all of those opportunities for women.
17:23:36 But I don't think we talk enough about failure actually.
17:23:38 And how key failure is on that journey.
17:23:47 Having, you know, gone to the Paralympics.
17:23:48 I absolutely can think about how valuable the times that we absolutely
17:23:52 failed were in enabling us to be successful.
17:23:55 And so we're.
17:23:56 Your journeys, especially even when you're doing amazing things,
17:23:58 but then you add the value of being the one you must've had some
17:24:02 struggles.
17:24:03 Phoebe.
17:24:04 What happens for you when it's not going so well?
17:24:16 Yeah,
17:24:17 and those are really great points to bring up because it's not always
17:24:21 sunshine and rainbows. Right. We, we get to see, you know,
17:24:24 us at the top,
17:24:25 but we miss out on that really massive journey that it took to get us
17:24:28 there. And you know, there's no straight line from.
17:24:31 Partis access from ATV. It's always this wiggly up and down and,
17:24:34 you know,
17:24:35 It's a total roller coaster.
17:24:37 And that's yeah,
17:24:38 that's part of the process and we really have to learn to embrace that
17:24:42 because if we were on a constant high all the time,
17:24:44 then we would never appreciate or understand the full depth of what
17:24:48 we're trying to achieve.
17:24:49 So.
17:24:50 I found at least with, for my failures.
17:24:52 A lot of the times it actually reflects back to no one else,
17:24:55 but myself, right.
17:24:59 It's a lack of belief in myself for something where I start to feel
17:25:03 like others are responsible for my success.
17:25:04 And I think the key thing is to take that ownership ownership and put
17:25:08 it back on ourselves. And.
17:25:09 And, you know, if you don't believe in yourself,
17:25:11 no one else is going to.
17:25:12 I found that having mentors has helped throughout as well.
17:25:19 You know, having people or friends or whoever that is,
17:25:21 that's close to you,
17:25:22 that you can reach out to and get really honest advice,
17:25:25 because you don't want people just to agree with you all the time.
17:25:28 You need people that aren't going to agree with. You.
17:25:40 But I think it definitely goes back to first off.
17:25:43 We have to believe in ourselves in order for others to do that.
17:25:45 And when we do that,
17:25:46 we build on confidence and we're able to then add value to the things
17:25:50 we do and understand what the value is that we,
17:25:52 that we bring to it in organization. And,
17:25:54 and that's probably been my biggest learnings. It's okay to fail.
17:25:57 And I'm not, I'm not afraid to fail anymore.
17:25:59 I actually almost not look for that, but that discomfort,
17:26:02 that feeling of, Oh my gosh, this is really scary,
17:26:05 but I'm going to go for it anyways,
17:26:06 because I know on the other side of that,
17:26:08 there's going to be a lot of growth and there's going to be lots to
17:26:10 learn from. So.
17:26:13 For me, that's the key,
17:26:14 but how can we find the positives in any of these situations?
17:26:16 Because there always will be some positive, right?
17:26:19 It's just the way that we view our mind.
17:26:21 What kind of mindset do we have?
17:26:22 Are we in a growth mindset where we want to constantly question and
17:26:25 get better?
17:26:26 Or are we in a fixed mindset where we're happy,
17:26:28 just staying the course plateauing like this. And that's a decision.
17:26:31 I think everyone has to really decide for themselves.
17:26:33 Absolutely. Absolutely.
17:26:34 Actually I'd actually say.
17:26:35 I try not to use a negative word as failure.
17:26:37 Of course.
17:26:38 Everything that's happened.
17:26:39 Second negative or positive.
17:26:41 And love and all that at the time.
17:26:43 So that's where maybe you do.
17:26:44 This'll be close to you can.
17:26:45 I was pulled out of a friend.
17:26:46 I've banked, you know?
17:26:47 For five minutes.
17:26:48 Calm down.
17:26:49 Then I pick out bits.
17:26:50 You can turn around.
17:26:52 Okay. And then, then you use that to drive you.
17:26:54 That will then drive you.
17:26:55 That's the next time and the metal.
17:26:56 That gives you the confidence each time.
17:26:58 And also you need to have those.
17:27:00 Second save sometimes.
17:27:04 Positives all the time who does know where you've got to play.
17:27:08 So it makes you hungry.
17:27:12 But she wants. And especially if you've been overlooked for something.
17:27:14 And again,
17:27:15 Plus your day job, but you've been a loop.
17:27:17 Or, you know,
17:27:18 All these sorts of things. You think why?
17:27:20 It happened to me.
17:27:21 They just have that interrogation.
17:27:25 Or with somebody else and go, okay, what could I have done better?
17:27:28 That is to do.
17:27:29 Whoever got the other.
17:27:30 Position or whatever.
17:27:32 What was it? They had that made them go a bit.
17:27:35 Go go get forward.
17:27:38 And again, as I say with everything you've said also.
17:27:44 My next innovations, we're going to have
17:27:46 what kind of sessions on how to handle disappointments?
17:27:48 You know,
17:27:50 Not just.
17:27:51 So the trap.
17:27:52 How did.
17:27:53 Also had the other plan B. So you've got, you need to have.
17:27:56 Reach for the star moments, but also.
17:27:58 How far will I get.
17:28:03 I might ask you more, but I mean,
17:28:04 you could end up in deposit designs the next.
17:28:07 Spaceship rather be the last.
17:28:09 So if you're happy to go that way, rather than being.
17:28:15 So you just got to try and find your level playing field.
17:28:17 So.
17:28:18 And for us.
17:28:23 To tell other people, all stores,
17:28:25 all journeys are pitfalls and how we pushed through that.
17:28:28 What's going to help.
17:28:29 I was coming up behind. Cause if you don't, you keep quiet.
17:28:31 Oh, well, they want to talk anything.
17:28:32 Well, what does it tell people?
17:28:33 Jenny was and how we dealt with it.
17:28:37 And how we had the highs and the lows and the disappointments.
17:28:42 I have more experience than we had. We had successes,
17:28:44 but like doing that.
17:28:45 You eventually rise like cream to the top.
17:28:47 Rise to the top.
17:28:49 I'm loving it. Just kind of building on from that.
17:28:51 Or, you know, there's, there's a lot of.
17:28:54 Research and talk at the moment around.
17:28:58 Mental health issues and increased pressures,
17:29:00 particularly on young people.
17:29:07 I know if from my own experience that drive and that passion to
17:29:10 achieve something can be so overwhelming sometimes.
17:29:13 How do you race?
17:29:14 Manage your balance so that your whilst you've got that big picture
17:29:18 and you've got that balance.
17:29:19 You also keeping yourself healthy and being kinder to yourself.
17:29:22 You're grinning. So I'm going to start with you.
17:29:23 Oh, that's.
17:29:24 It's been hard.
17:29:27 I have to admit, I mean, this last year,
17:29:29 It's been a double edged sword.
17:29:30 I mean.
17:29:31 I've been on my own.
17:29:34 Since a year.
17:29:37 On the 10th of March.
17:29:38 Since I've been working at home.
17:29:39 I've gone. Boom.
17:29:40 Nice social person.
17:29:41 You know,
17:29:43 Not for expensive drinks.
17:29:44 Most weekends.
17:29:47 Gonna play, do my rice three teams, you know,
17:29:50 Going out to restaurants doing all sorts of things.
17:29:52 When I wanted to win.
17:29:53 How long ago.
17:29:54 Just, I need to be locked up.
17:29:56 I live on my own sobbing.
17:29:57 I'm in a flat all by myself.
17:29:59 And suddenly I'm not seeing people other than fruit.
17:30:02 Zoom meetings or team meetings.
17:30:04 So my purse.
17:30:10 I know it's changed a bit because I've become fearful about going out
17:30:13 and all done before it's coming out.
17:30:15 I'm becoming fearful about, well,
17:30:16 we don't want to socialize with how big a group.
17:30:18 You know,
17:30:19 All those sorts of things.
17:30:21 But throughout the whole of the pandemic.
17:30:22 What's kept me going, I suppose, because of that.
17:30:24 Although I've had my day job.
17:30:25 It's just not my initiative.
17:30:27 That's what's driven me on that.
17:30:30 Comes up every other week space.
17:30:34 So if it wasn't for the pandemic, I would never go NRG.
17:30:36 Off the ground.
17:30:37 Because I've been able to.
17:30:39 Split my time between.
17:30:40 Through my day job and doing this.
17:30:43 Already thinking, well, how am I going to cook?
17:30:45 When I come back to the middle office.
17:30:48 But I won't say it's been easy. It's been.
17:30:50 You have to work on it.
17:30:53 I've had to work pretty hard.
17:30:55 And not having that.
17:30:57 Miss guile.
17:30:58 People talk with people face to.
17:31:00 The space cause all.
17:31:01 I can do it again.
17:31:02 On the phone.
17:31:03 It's not the same.
17:31:09 Setting up the Academy, not I'm sitting here.
17:31:11 I've got no objection to the overall.
17:31:15 You know, talk things over and, and I've missed that, you know,
17:31:19 and I can make friends.
17:31:21 It's not the same as having a table took this up.
17:31:24 And I haven't gone out.
17:31:26 Not the cycles of things.
17:31:29 I have, sorry, I have.
17:31:30 Because.
17:31:33 I'm slightly older. I've been very fearful about people.
17:31:36 I could actually see from my guts, my.
17:31:37 Windows.
17:31:39 Holds people go down to the park.
17:31:40 People mixing with.
17:31:42 I can't go out there.
17:31:43 You know,
17:31:44 I don't even really need to buy shopper.
17:31:45 My neighbor.
17:31:54 [Unknown] so it has been very, very hard,
17:31:58 but I've had to work very hard to keep my spirits up. Yes, I've.
17:32:01 Have down days, but then I haven't talked with them. Okay. Right.
17:32:04 What can we do today?
17:32:05 So the windows open, you know,
17:32:07 if you have to have a treat and buy some chocolate,
17:32:08 then you buy some chocolate.
17:32:11 And you'll get rid of the weight later on, you know, so don't, don't,
17:32:14 don't beat yourself up good guy in front of unprecedented times,
17:32:16 but it's.
17:32:17 Very very hard. And I think it's been hard for every age group,
17:32:20 you know?
17:32:21 That's been been around.
17:32:22 And Phoebe.
17:32:23 You've also got the transatlantic switching in the middle of.
17:32:26 How do you keep that balance?
17:32:32 Yeah. And I think it's, you know,
17:32:33 I've been through the first half of the lockdown,
17:32:35 really in the UK and then coming over here and experiencing it over
17:32:38 here.
17:32:42 You know, very similar to what Carol said. You know,
17:32:43 she's had this great project with NRG and I,
17:32:45 I think finding something to focus on because even as an athlete
17:32:49 still.
17:33:07 We don't have any games. So all of our matches have been canceled,
17:33:09 so we don't have any training.
17:33:11 So you definitely go through this dip where you're like, well,
17:33:13 what am I doing this for? Why am I, and,
17:33:16 and you really need to just find something to focus on for yourself
17:33:18 and find some time for yourself throughout the day,
17:33:20 whether it's between classes or work for me,
17:33:22 it is like you were saying before,
17:33:24 being able to just go for a run outside, get fresh air.
17:33:27 You know, those things became what were really important.
17:33:29 But I also found when lockdown started creating a routine was really
17:33:33 key to my success because.
17:33:35 I'm sure all of us know would be very easy just to lay in bed all day
17:33:37 and not get out of there,
17:33:39 but that's a really slippery slope to go down. And it's,
17:33:41 it's really important for us to find that routine,
17:33:44 find something to motivate us, find little goals.
17:33:46 They don't have to be anything extravagant.
17:33:48 But we also know this time is actually opened up a lot of
17:33:50 opportunities who knows.
17:33:52 You know,
17:33:53 if the three of us ever would have been able to have a conversation.
17:33:56 No,
17:33:57 you've got access to all these people that we've never had access to
17:34:00 before.
17:34:01 And I think there's a lot of positives that have come out. I mean,
17:34:04 I've seen some incredible creativity and that have been going on with
17:34:06 kids and adults nowadays.
17:34:08 My colleague at work wrote,
17:34:10 like we wrote a children's book together because of lockdown,
17:34:12 which we never would have done.
17:34:15 You know, so there's a lot of really great things. And, you know,
17:34:18 I know it's not easy to be positive all the time, but I promise you,
17:34:21 if you can kind of attack the day with that positive mindset,
17:34:24 it gives you that.
17:34:25 Bit of an extra edge on things and, you know, yeah.
17:34:28 You just see the world a little bit differently.
17:34:30 And I think also important to not feel guilty if you want to have
17:34:33 a bad day or do whatever.
17:34:34 Just do it.
17:34:35 You know,
17:34:37 Just do not.
17:34:38 And I've not done that.
17:34:39 Just do not do that feel.
17:34:40 Feel guilty. One.
17:34:41 No.
17:34:42 Just do it.
17:34:44 If you do, do they have little goals? Wherever it be, you know?
17:34:47 That's really in the summer, it was like, I have thoughts.
17:34:49 Water's on my balcony. You know, they were my babies.
17:34:51 Summer watching them.
17:34:53 So you find something that gives you, gives you joy.
17:34:56 Did that joy back in your heart?
17:35:02 Yeah. I always think why, what my granny used to tell me, which was,
17:35:04 this will be a very British thing.
17:35:06 You can't make tea from an empty kettle.
17:35:08 So if you're not, if you're not filling up the cells,
17:35:09 then you can't have support anyone. Absolutely. Absolutely.
17:35:17 Next question is Phoebe.
17:35:19 I've done a bit of digging and I found out that you've recently been
17:35:22 appointed to the, I'm going to say the pasta.
17:35:24 Royals and the German football league as a coach.
17:35:27 In Europe.
17:35:28 Tell us about that journey.
17:35:43 Yeah, I'm actually so excited for this.
17:35:45 We talk about challenges and that's the way I've kind of discovered in
17:35:48 myself later in life is that I always am looking for what that next
17:35:51 challenge is. And when the opportunity,
17:35:53 when I was approached by the assistant to the head coach about going
17:35:56 out to Germany and coaching.
17:35:57 You know, I wasn't a hundred percent sure. I,
17:35:59 I definitely don't speak any German.
17:36:17 But, you know, the guys apparently all speak English, which is great,
17:36:20 but it's,
17:36:21 it's a great opportunity for me to go out there to see the talent that
17:36:24 we have in Europe that are playing the sport of American football.
17:36:27 It's the highest level of the sport outside of Canada and the us.
17:36:30 I'm excited to be, you know, I have a positional group,
17:36:32 so I'm with linebackers, I'm assisting our defensive coordinator,
17:36:35 which is a really big deal. I think there's only,
17:36:38 I don't know if there's any other females that are coaching at the
17:36:39 moment in the league, but if.
17:36:41 So there's only one before.
17:36:42 And so, you know, I'm just,
17:36:43 I'm thrilled to actually get this opportunity to,
17:36:46 to really see what potential we have and hopefully create more
17:36:49 pathways for some of our players to make it into the States or the
17:36:51 NFL, if that's what they want to do.
17:36:53 And obviously capital you've set up your Academy again,
17:36:55 a step into the unknown.
17:36:56 How is that for you?
17:36:57 It's been good because said I've, I've set it up.
17:37:00 Is your company veins very much sort of fat side. I have a group,
17:37:03 a cohort of, of youngsters who were in Carlton at the moment.
17:37:05 We're trying to try and get them out.
17:37:07 Part, and then it's called, but it's really hard to.
17:37:09 Map that out. So I'm concentrating more on, on working with.
17:37:11 Flattened the divers in the, in the, in the urban communities.
17:37:13 So my sort of.
17:37:14 We've got a corporate side.
17:37:15 So I've now just got my advisory board members on the,
17:37:18 on the heavy side. This.
17:37:19 Come chat to Webb street.
17:37:20 So we can probably push the apprenticeship through that.
17:37:22 Training.
17:37:23 They'll non sending off the ground.
17:37:24 That's quite good. We can do that.
17:37:32 We'll have the portal open so that people can, can,
17:37:33 can then do it as a member and take part in those.
17:37:36 And I said, I'll.
17:37:37 Initiatives covered.
17:37:38 So one of my first events will be.
17:37:40 We'll be hoping to end or July.
17:37:41 In London where I've been given the.
17:37:43 The red bull.
17:37:44 The sports facility.
17:37:46 To have a babysitter for that event.
17:37:52 I'm for sure. Over a grand Prix weekend.
17:37:54 So I'm looking for anybody over 16 to start up in suburbs.
17:37:56 Website.
17:37:57 And public could come down and.
17:38:02 And, you know, play on me. Same game, Alan will have go on free.
17:38:06 I think it's going to the Australian Golem free on in the backgrounds
17:38:08 and we may have with.
17:38:09 At the moment. So lots of things like that. So yeah.
17:38:13 I've got brilliantly, the ideas. There's lots of things.
17:38:15 Lots of youth groups.
17:38:16 So there's things we could do.
17:38:17 What about Lee? I can't wait to get up into the circuit.
17:38:20 And then also for myself, I'm still going to be talking to 10 o'clock.
17:38:24 Of course, and I've just, well, they had some,
17:38:26 some dates come through.
17:38:28 I just go to the Facebook and other clubs.
17:38:29 Comfortable that April meeting. So.
17:38:34 At the moment, like hands is in pencil. Well then, so I think.
17:38:37 Is much of what, what club modes,
17:38:38 what won't go back until about megs that.
17:38:42 Like they met. Cirque is in the pubs.
17:38:43 Need the public's come back in we've rounded REITs as last year
17:38:46 without knowing post.
17:38:47 But they need the puppets come in. They need money. They need.
17:38:50 Feel the structure that goes on.
17:38:51 And also if I want to bring people down, I.
17:38:53 I need.
17:38:54 That as well. So it's going to be a little bit frustrated,
17:38:56 but it's been good.
17:38:57 We're gonna hopefully gonna launch ourselves broccoli.
17:38:59 Next week.
17:39:01 So officially our website's Nella.
17:39:03 So, yeah.
17:39:04 Because the work is going to work is going on.
17:39:06 So that's good.
17:39:09 And I want to ask a question around what.
17:39:15 What are you saying to those people who say, Oh, you know,
17:39:18 this is positive discrimination.
17:39:20 You know, this is all about.
17:39:22 You know, obviously in the NFL, Phoebe,
17:39:24 you have the Rooney law and all of those, and you.
17:39:28 You know,
17:39:29 people like those people to only getting jobs because they're a woman
17:39:32 and obviously Carol at the moment.
17:39:34 People are saying, Oh, you know, if I'm, if I'm a white person,
17:39:36 I've got no advantage whatsoever.
17:39:37 Not quite sure where that comes from.
17:39:38 That's a whole nother conversation.
17:39:39 What do you say to them?
17:39:48 To them in terms of helping them understand the difference between
17:39:50 positive discrimination,
17:39:51 which actually nobody wants versus understanding the barriers and
17:39:55 putting things in place to address those barriers.
17:39:57 Yeah. Oh, go.
17:40:05 No, I was just going to say, you mentioned earlier Claire,
17:40:07 about how actually it's so many men have helped a lot of us get into
17:40:11 the roles that we're in. Right?
17:40:12 They haven't done all the lifting for us, but they've.
17:40:16 They've brought us into their spaces because historically there tend
17:40:19 to be more males in those spaces than there are women.
17:40:22 So we have to still kind of celebrate those, those guys.
17:40:24 But when it comes to the actual.
17:40:33 Thinking of positive discrimination. That's to me, that's,
17:40:36 that's something like you said,
17:40:37 nobody wants it's something where you're ticking boxes and you're just
17:40:39 putting a person of, of color or of,
17:40:42 of whatever gender or whatever it is in that role,
17:40:46 just to tick that box and.
17:40:47 And the person who's probably in that role,
17:40:49 doesn't want that the person, you know,
17:40:51 who you're working with probably doesn't want that, you know,
17:40:52 that doesn't actually benefit anyone, but there is this fine line of.
17:41:04 We need to find a way to actually change the landscape.
17:41:06 And we need to find a way to open doors. Now,
17:41:09 I'm not saying you have to hold the door open for us,
17:41:11 but if we can get a foot in that door and we can prove to you what a
17:41:14 great work ethic we have, and we earn our spot from there,
17:41:17 that to me is, is the right way to do things.
17:41:19 And, and I think that's what really all of us are striving to do.
17:41:22 We don't want to be there to be a statistic.
17:41:23 We want to be there to make a difference.
17:41:25 And kind of similarly for you in terms of, you know,
17:41:35 Black lives matter in the summer was, was obviously terrible,
17:41:39 but also great in that lots of people suddenly woke up to racial
17:41:42 inequality, which in itself is an interesting position, but you know,
17:41:46 how do we make sure that people are doing things because it's the
17:41:48 right thing to do to remove barriers?
17:41:49 Not because they want to be seen to be addressing black lives matter.
17:41:53 Everything that you say.
17:41:54 Class.
17:41:55 I don't want to be given a position.
17:41:56 Just because I'm black.
17:41:57 Or because I'm a woman.
17:41:59 I want to be considered.
17:42:00 On the same merit as anybody else.
17:42:02 What.
17:42:03 Phase.
17:42:04 Maybe more.
17:42:05 I don't know.
17:42:06 We're faced as well. This is unconscious.
17:42:08 All the time.
17:42:09 And it's unconscious bias.
17:42:11 People got to be trained on.
17:42:12 Not just stabbing a woman.
17:42:14 And ignore that one and you go straight to cause.
17:42:16 Well, I've seen.
17:42:16 Males.
17:42:17 Got the laptop.
17:42:21 Who got their money.
17:42:24 National international races.
17:42:26 But I'm still down there. I can't get.
17:42:27 Because I missed one of the boys.
17:42:28 But you.
17:42:33 You still, you still, she still fastened that source,
17:42:35 that sort of thing.
17:42:36 It's the unconscious bias.
17:42:37 It's.
17:42:39 The uneducation.
17:42:40 Or people.
17:42:41 Don't.
17:42:43 It was diversity, but it's big.
17:42:44 Women of color.
17:42:47 As a tick box exercise. Oh, okay.
17:42:51 We're not going to become diverse. And it's like, Oh,
17:42:53 it's how many people.
17:42:54 They just bring somebody in the ticket book.
17:42:57 And th th that they've done as much as they need to.
17:42:59 That's no good either.
17:43:00 You know, so.
17:43:03 It's hard, but I was pressing.
17:43:05 I got hate people talking about.
17:43:06 No, that wants to move up.
17:43:14 What do you want to do? What's your long term. What's your,
17:43:17 have you looked in the uncomfortable question is have you looked in
17:43:20 yourself?
17:43:21 Or company before you start giving out.
17:43:23 Things to other people outside.
17:43:24 Is that internal audit.
17:43:27 Or do you need to do your quality audit? There's all these things do,
17:43:30 but.
17:43:31 Don't just put people gain because you want to just.
17:43:33 If you have no.
17:43:34 To fill that role of that right. Gender or whatever.
17:43:37 Then it has to stay there until somebody.
17:43:39 Comes home. Don't you just tell me the role.
17:43:41 That's not the right training.
17:43:43 Or the right color.
17:43:45 Just to fill a quota.
17:43:47 But that person will feel.
17:43:51 It was. And then that's when the Fein is,
17:43:52 we'll cover this from the system.
17:43:53 Breaks down.
17:43:54 And then also people.
17:43:55 But there's a lot of the stuff I used.
17:43:57 I have to talk through that in the end, because.
17:44:03 Uneducated people who don't understand what diversity
17:44:07 policy and the mounts.
17:44:08 Awful things I was seeing in a knot.
17:44:11 As an American, but over here as well.
17:44:13 And so I think a lot of it's also.
17:44:14 Education.
17:44:16 A lot of it needs to be educated on history properly.
17:44:17 You know,
17:44:18 So it's a lot of people who actually gets it and understands it.
17:44:20 There's a lot of people who this.
17:44:24 Friends holding that Ben or groups.
17:44:27 Awful awful things.
17:44:29 That's what's in.
17:44:31 I suppose the biggest one was Ben.
17:44:33 The Christmas.
17:44:36 Was it Sainsbury's adverts when they, because it was.
17:44:39 Handling most of middle England.
17:44:44 Anymore.
17:44:48 It's like, well, hold on. How do you refill all these years?
17:44:52 Having to go to the store.
17:44:55 Welcome.
17:45:00 If that's what you say.
17:45:04 Guess what.
17:45:10 What is that?
17:45:27 Is that sad thing, isn't it?
17:45:28 That we've created the narrative that in order to give equality to one
17:45:33 group and remove barriers,
17:45:34 there's this myth that we have to take something away from another
17:45:37 group that simply isn't true.
17:45:38 And therefore we create that competition and it's so, so sad.
17:45:41 And that's the bit that really struck me and that sets, you know,
17:45:44 because you think.
17:45:45 Wow. That's heavy.
17:45:47 He was what he was.
17:45:48 You know,
17:45:49 We used to like why people.
17:45:51 And you saw the comments of people making and the stopping.
17:45:55 So this was 30 years old. Really?
17:45:59 I have two last questions for you. The first one is.
17:46:03 What do you wish that you knew when you were.
17:46:06 Still at school.
17:46:07 Wow.
17:46:09 I wish I have. You have to become.
17:46:10 And drive when I was at school.
17:46:16 But it's a younger age.
17:46:18 You know, what could have, or even.
17:46:22 All the jobs.
17:46:24 Because I remember at school.
17:46:25 Again, very much.
17:46:27 You got to become a nurse.
17:46:30 Or you become a receptionist or become as Lebanese.
17:46:32 That's how it was at night.
17:46:33 If I didn't know that you could.
17:46:35 You didn't have to become a lawyer.
17:46:36 Critical cover paralegal.
17:46:39 You didn't have to go to university. You couldn't know.
17:46:43 It was always any jobs.
17:46:44 The pathway.
17:46:45 So I wish I knew more about that.
17:46:47 So I can call it.
17:46:48 They'll be different, but say that.
17:46:50 But I'm going to walk on to that. I wouldn't be here.
17:46:53 Yeah, absolutely. And Phoebe.
17:47:05 To be honest. I mean, Carol is pretty spot on. I would,
17:47:07 I would agree with that in terms of,
17:47:08 I wish I wish I had support when I was younger or more sport one that
17:47:12 I felt like I could really be myself in.
17:47:14 I wish I.
17:47:32 Knew that there were other pathways that I, didn't not,
17:47:35 I wouldn't want to not go to university, but that, you know,
17:47:38 what I majored in,
17:47:39 in equine business management really doesn't apply to anything that
17:47:42 I'm doing now. And that's okay.
17:47:43 I think there's a lot of us that end up doing one thing,
17:47:45 thinking this is what we want to do,
17:47:47 but really that's because we haven't actually experienced the world
17:47:49 and we don't really know what's truly out there and what our
17:47:51 opportunities are.
17:47:52 But other than that, you know,
17:47:54 I think those are my main things and never be afraid of taking an
17:47:58 opportunity. Anything that comes your way, just say, yes,
17:48:00 figure it out later. You know,
17:48:01 we stress too much about the little things in between,
17:48:04 but it'll all work out in the end. You know, we, we work hard.
17:48:06 So I think that's key.
17:48:07 Brilliant.
17:48:09 And my very last question,
17:48:10 although I feel like we could have this conversation.
17:48:11 Hours.
17:48:12 My very last question is.
17:48:14 You know, you based achieved so much and you,
17:48:16 you both really are trailblazing for, you know,
17:48:19 not only just other women,
17:48:20 but also people who feel different in any way to,
17:48:24 to go out and break down those barriers.
17:48:26 But when you think about your entire career,
17:48:28 The things you've achieved.
17:48:29 What are you most proud of?
17:48:30 Phoebe.
17:48:31 Well, that's a really good question to.
17:48:33 To narrow it down.
17:48:41 I think what will be the biggest thing that I,
17:48:44 and I know this is kind of a funky one that I'll be proud of is,
17:48:46 is potentially the legacy you leave behind is the people that want
17:48:50 to.
17:48:54 Get involved in something, you know,
17:48:56 maybe you had an impact on their life or they saw you in this role.
17:48:59 And they thought, actually, I can do that.
17:49:01 I think that element of sending the elevator back down will be the key
17:49:05 to.
17:49:06 What makes me proud.
17:49:07 I think we all have our moments of pride within ourselves.
17:49:09 And I think the three of us surely should be proud of who we are and
17:49:12 what we've achieved so far.
17:49:13 But that can't be the ceiling for us. That can't be it.
17:49:16 There has to be what happens next for everyone else.
17:49:20 Brilliant Carol.
17:49:21 Pigs my words and my.
17:49:22 That's my side.
17:49:24 You are so right, because I am.
17:49:27 I'm proud of what I've done within those sports.
17:49:30 I still have got lot to achieve personally. I.
17:49:32 That's building's national official.
17:49:33 Within the FIA.
17:49:35 You know, and that's why.
17:49:40 That's what NetSuite,
17:49:42 that's the one I'm proud of that I've started this initiative.
17:49:45 And that.
17:49:46 I will be. I am the first black.
17:49:47 Race teams.
17:49:51 In the UK and that we might like to see, but if I'm around my family,
17:49:54 Can still run it, run it, and we'll be out there champion.
17:49:59 And we'll be running anybody from any background, as you know,
17:50:02 is in the team.
17:50:03 I I'm proud of what I've done within my career.
17:50:09 And the fact that, you know,
17:50:10 I am able the people who come and talk to me or I can sell it to
17:50:13 people.
17:50:14 Both young girls and young men.
17:50:15 Very much to young girls about that.
17:50:17 The fact is never give up.
17:50:18 Never ever give up.
17:50:20 You know, there's there's.
17:50:21 You know, you just have to keep going.
17:50:22 And hope they.
17:50:27 Paul's all rookie Paul's,
17:50:28 we'll make straight across to them and we're setting and send the
17:50:30 elevator down and bring it back.
17:50:31 Totally.
17:50:34 Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time.
17:50:35 I hope you found that inspiring.